Religious Philosophical Question:

[MSUBulldog2010]

The Bible says "Let not the wedding bed be defiled." Many Christians interpret this line of scripture as meaning sex should not take place prior to marriage. If two people share a bed prior to marriage, how then does that bed constitute a "wedding or marriage bed"? If a wedding or marriage bed can be defined by two non married people sleeping with each other, then what does that say for the marriage bed of two people who are joined by marriage? It would seem that when you say two non married people sharing the same bed are somehow defiling the marriage bed that to do so, is to falsely equate the bed of two married people to the same bed as two non married people. I'm admittedly playing devil's advocate but would enjoy any form of feedback related to the subject matter respectfully. Some have come to interpret this scripture as not meaning that sex before marriage is forbidden but rather that sex after marriage with anyone other than the person you're married to is forbidden. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by MSUBulldog2010

[Dawg83]

There are quite a few verses in the Bible that warn about “sexual immorality” or “fornication”, as they are translated into English, and the definition of those translated terms typically includes any and all sex outside of marriage. I’m assuming the verse you are referencing is Hebrews 13:4, which I feel like also addresses this. The verse mentions “the adulterer and all the sexually immoral”, which to me clearly indicates that adultery is not the only form of impure relations.

 

Unfortunately I feel that this is an area that either doesn’t get talked about enough or doesn’t get talked about well in many churches. We focus a lot of attention on trying to preach abstinence to teenagers, but many times we just focus on potential worldly consequences and don’t do a great job of explaining  how The Bible addresses it, and you never really hear it discussed when talking about grown adults.

 

 

[MSUBulldog2010]

Does the Bible specifically state that two non married people engaged in sexual relations constitutes immorality or fornication?

[Chunky6617]

Yes 

[MSUBulldog2010]

12 hours ago, Chunky6617 said:

Yes 

Ok, well where?

[pancho]

Hebrews 13:4 is one I believe does reference the topic.

[Chunky6617]

9 hours ago, MSUBulldog2010 said:

Ok, well where?

Genesis 2: 24-25

1st Corinthians 7:2

 

Among other verses 

[MSUBulldog2010]

15 hours ago, Chunky6617 said:

Genesis 2: 24-25

1st Corinthians 7:2

 

Among other verses 

(G2, 24:25 states "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.")

 

To this line of scripture one might say that people who sleep with multiple partner prior to marriage still fulfill this scripture by eventually one day clinging to his or her wife after tasting the flavor to see which person they wish to become married to. 

 

(1C 7:2 states "Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife." )

 

To this line of scripture one might say that fornication is a married person having sex with anyone other than their spouse. The scripture makes no mention to the number of spouses and doesn't address the eventuality of this scripture, meaning that many non married people have sex with many other non married people prior to marriage to better ensure marriage to a spouse who best suits the needs of both people being married.  

 

[MSUBulldog2010]

18 hours ago, pancho said:

Hebrews 13:4 is one I believe does reference the topic.

H-13:4 states "Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral."

 

To this line of scripture one might say that indeed marriage should be honored by all and that two non married people sleeping with each other in no wise does anything to dishonor the shared bed of two married people. Again the marriage bed can't be defiled by two non married people sleeping together without allowing two non married people to define the marriage bed which I'm pretty sure most Christians wouldn't stand for. Also, God may indeed judge the sexually immoral but where does the bible state that two non married people sleeping together is sexually immoral? I agree that a married person sleeping with anyone else other than their spouse regardless if that other person is married or not married is considered by the teachings of the Bible to be immoral. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by MSUBulldog2010

[Chunky6617]

One might could say anything to make any scripture fit his own liking. When one is doing that, it doesn’t matter what scripture you give them. That doesn’t mean the scripture is wrong, it just means that person is wrong. 

[MSUBulldog2010]

12 hours ago, Chunky6617 said:

One might could say anything to make any scripture fit his own liking. When one is doing that, it doesn’t matter what scripture you give them. That doesn’t mean the scripture is wrong, it just means that person is wrong. 

Isn't what you described exactly what everyone does with scripture by reading it and interpreting it as they see fit? It's difficult to say a person is wrong in their interpretation of the scripture without stating exactly what it is they're wrong about and the reason you feel they're wrong. 

[Chunky6617]

Many people misinterpret scripture. It doesn’t mean the scripture is wrong, it just means THEY are wrong. It would be extremely hard to misinterpret scripture to the point where you could argue that sex before marriage is permitted by God. That wouldn’t just be a misinterpretation, that would be an extreme twisting of the scripture to make it say what you want it to say. 

[MSUBulldog2010]

1 hour ago, Chunky6617 said:

. It would be extremely hard to misinterpret scripture to the point where you could argue that sex before marriage is permitted by God.

And yet I've successfully done just that so far unless of course you can point to a fallacy  contained within the confines of my remarks. Not only have I played devils advocate but I've additionally fine tuned his fiddle as well. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by MSUBulldog2010

[Chunky6617]

No, quite the opposite actually. If I say “it’s hot outside”, and your argument is that I really didn’t say it was hot outside but rather I could probably just have meant “it’s not cold outside”, that would be an example of you just purposely twisting what I said to fit what you want it to say. Scripture makes it clear in many verses, so clear in fact that for one to not even come to that conclusion only shows that they are looking for a way to justify their actions of doing it. When Paul writes to the Corinthians about all of the sexual immorality that was occurring, his solution for that was to tell those people to get married. He told them that abstaining from sex and remaining single was a noble thing to do as long as their devotion was fully on Christ, but that if they could not control their passions then they should go ahead and get married. It doesn’t get more clear than that. 

[MSUBulldog2010]

22 hours ago, Chunky6617 said:

No, quite the opposite actually. If I say “it’s hot outside”, and your argument is that I really didn’t say it was hot outside but rather I could probably just have meant “it’s not cold outside”, that would be an example of you just purposely twisting what I said to fit what you want it to say. Scripture makes it clear in many verses, so clear in fact that for one to not even come to that conclusion only shows that they are looking for a way to justify their actions of doing it. When Paul writes to the Corinthians about all of the sexual immorality that was occurring, his solution for that was to tell those people to get married. He told them that abstaining from sex and remaining single was a noble thing to do as long as their devotion was fully on Christ, but that if they could not control their passions then they should go ahead and get married. It doesn’t get more clear than that. 

That's not true. Let's put your false claim directly to the test by copying and pasting the words from a single scripture and then copy and paste my words under that scripture passage and prove your remarks that I've in any way stated the direct opposite of a scripture passage. You simply can't and won't do that. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by MSUBulldog2010

[Chunky6617]

That’s the problem. You don’t take a single scripture verse to come to any conclusion. The Bible is to be taken IN ITS ENTIRETY, and in its proper context. That’s the reason we don’t all walk around with our eyes gouged out, even though there is a verse that tells us we should gouge our eyes out. 

[MSUBulldog2010]

21 hours ago, Chunky6617 said:

That’s the problem. You don’t take a single scripture verse to come to any conclusion. The Bible is to be taken IN ITS ENTIRETY, and in its proper context. That’s the reason we don’t all walk around with our eyes gouged out, even though there is a verse that tells us we should gouge our eyes out. 

The entire Bible doesn't pertain to the singular subject matter of this topic. Only singular scriptures of the Bible are purported to address this topic and therein lies the fallacy of your argument I believe. 

[Chunky6617]

Again that’s incorrect. There are different instructions throughout all the Bible that clearly lay out God’s intentions for our relationships, and that includes sexual immorality. When we are instructed to get married if we cannot control our sexual desires, it doesn’t take a biblical scholar to figure out what that means. 

[MSUBulldog2010]

11 hours ago, Chunky6617 said:

Again that’s incorrect. There are different instructions throughout all the Bible that clearly lay out God’s intentions for our relationships, and that includes sexual immorality. When we are instructed to get married if we cannot control our sexual desires, it doesn’t take a biblical scholar to figure out what that means. 

it could very well mean that those who are unmarried and can't seem to stay away from married people in relation to their sexual desires should become married which wouldn't necessarily include the sexual desires of two non-married people. The point is, if the authors of the Bible believed that all sex before marriage was wrong, it seems a bit odd that those authors wouldn't simply and explicitly state as much. 

[Chunky6617]

They didn’t say pornography was wrong either. However, when you take ALL of the Bible in its entirety and in its proper context, you can easily know that it is. It’s not even a vague issue that is difficult to understand. 

[MSUBulldog2010]

2 hours ago, Chunky6617 said:

They didn’t say pornography was wrong either. However, when you take ALL of the Bible in its entirety and in its proper context, you can easily know that it is. It’s not even a vague issue that is difficult to understand. 

Your personal opinion and interpretation of the Bible is noted Chunk. 

[pancho]

I personally  know Jesus as my Lord and Savior and am much better as a result.  God does not make any of us free moral agents accept Christ. We will all meet him in the end as is noted in the Bible.  If we are going to make fun of folks names and whether we believe the Bible as the written and spoken word of God then I am glad of my belief.  Hell is going to be brutal. I pray daily for others to choose Christ but as we see with the many things wrong with our country and the world, some are choosing otherwise. Choose wisely.

[MSUBulldog2010]

16 hours ago, pancho said:

I personally  know Jesus as my Lord and Savior and am much better as a result.  God does not make any of us free moral agents accept Christ. We will all meet him in the end as is noted in the Bible.  If we are going to make fun of folks names and whether we believe the Bible as the written and spoken word of God then I am glad of my belief.  Hell is going to be brutal. I pray daily for others to choose Christ but as we see with the many things wrong with our country and the world, some are choosing otherwise. Choose wisely.

I too am a student of Jesus and believe that God did make us free to a degree within a limited physical and mental capacity. 

[pancho]

to a degree?  He doesn't make us choose him at all but he does say that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light.  Most of us are mentally capable of making our own decisions but it often takes time.  One has to realize that they need Jesus to fully see what God has in store for that person's life. 

[Chunky6617]

That’s not accurate actually. Nowhere does the Bible say we are free to choose Jesus. It actually says that due to us being dead in our trespasses and sins, that none of us will come to Christ apart from him drawing us to him first. The only way we can even come to faith in Christ is for God to first grant us that faith. We have a human will, but it’s not a free will. We are in bondage to sin. When it comes to anything of spiritual significance, we will always choose the wrong thing and will never choose God. Those who come to faith in Christ are those whom God in his mercy chose for himself before the foundation of the world. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Chunky6617